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Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies:
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Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4155

  • Occam
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Cool idea, I think I'll make one using the actual, referenced, data instead of Cliff and Randy's. In the meantime:



www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/ipcc2007/fig614.html
Last Edit: 2 years, 4 months ago by Occam.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4158

  • Harrison Fire
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Trust the government not to skew the data?

And what about this.....
www.petitionproject.org/

So, who will you listen to?
HF
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Keeping Warm With Wood Heat From 1976 To 2006
Heating With Corn And Wood Pellets Since 2006
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Last Edit: 2 years, 4 months ago by Harrison Fire.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4167

  • Occam
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Not this group....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Petition

Listen to the experts

esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/19/sur....global.warming.real

"They're the ones who study and publish on climate science. So I guess the take-home message is, the more you know about the field of climate science, the more you're likely to believe in global warming and humankind's contribution to it."
Last Edit: 2 years, 4 months ago by Occam.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4170

  • FirepotPete
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You should download "spin spotter" and then run it on the last article you linked to. Shredded to bits. What is written is mostly conjecture on the part of the writer, not based in fact.
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Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4189

  • fitter
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if you take the gov. sub. out which is what 50 cents a gallon, it can't support it self. plus 8 gallons of water per gallon ethanol. time the true test!
WARM FLOORS

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4195

  • Sting
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FirepotPete wrote:
You should download "spin spotter" and then run it on the last article you linked to. Shredded to bits. What is written is mostly conjecture on the part of the writer, not based in fact.


And exactly why I take um-bridge to these threads



I also think its a slap in my face to give these guys negative karma --

that's my niche
Paradoxical Quote of The Day From Ben Stein:

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that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured.... but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4331

  • Occam
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MaryB wrote:
Blame away but political blame has nothing to do with the ever increasing "100 year" storms that seem to be hitting all of the country. The weather pattern is changing and man may not be 100% behind it but the extra carbon in the air is contributing to it in part. We may be hastening a natural process or we may be causing it, either way we need to find a solution that doesn't involve burning fossil fuels of any kind. Technology to stretch shrinking resources is helping but not enough is being done to make it affordable to the average American. Would I buy a 3 wheel ultra efficient commuter(enclosed for weather protection so no motorcycles) for general use? Heck yes if it was affordable. Most of my trips don't require carrying cargo other than a few bags of groceries so it would be useful. For the few trips requiring heavy cargo carrying make truck rental cheap enough that people will rent instead of buy. The big key is affordable, fast enough for longer trips on the interstate etc. Worry about heavier vehicles can be solved with the use of separate lanes so the chance of getting squished is reduced.




Occam wrote:
While some of these particular specific preditions were not central tenets of AGW, unforeseeable secondary effects of rapid climate change are expected and will become more defined in the coming decades.

Global Warming to Bring More Intense Storms to Northern Hemisphere in Winter and Southern Hemisphere Year Round

ScienceDaily (Oct. 25, 2010) — Weather systems in the Southern and Northern hemispheres will respond differently to global warming, according to an MIT atmospheric scientist's analysis that suggests the warming of the planet will affect the availability of energy to fuel extratropical storms, or large-scale weather systems that occur at Earth's middle latitudes. The resulting changes will depend on the hemisphere and season, the study found.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101025152249.htm

Arctic Report Card: Region Continues to Warm at Unprecedented Rate

ScienceDaily (Oct. 22, 2010) — The Arctic region, also called the "planet's refrigerator," continues to heat up, affecting local populations and ecosystems as well as weather patterns in the most populated parts of the Northern Hemisphere, according to a team of 69 international scientists.

.....There is also evidence that the effect of higher air temperatures in the Arctic atmosphere in fall is contributing to changes in the atmospheric circulation in both the Arctic and northern mid-latitudes[that is us]. Winter 2009-2010 showed a link between mid-latitude extreme cold and snowy weather events and changes in the wind patterns of the Arctic, related to a phase of the Arctic Oscillation



And again this year, we have an inversion of the Arctic Oscillation: warming the Arctic and bringing extreme cold down to the north US and freezing temperatures into the south.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34746400/ns/weather/
nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
The loss of the Arctic Icecap is of course disrupting weather patterns.
Extremely damaging to agriculture. This even caused a large fish kill in Maryland according to JDeere.
Last Edit: 2 years, 4 months ago by Occam.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4335

50 cents a gallon isn't likely to cover the subsidies the big oil companies get when to take in all the BLM land that they pay little or no royalties or leases on. In addition to that all the tax breaks they give to the big corporations in this country it is nearly impossible to put a number on all the subsidies the oil companies do get. If we took away all the subsidies from everyone maybe supply and demand would have a better chance of actually controlling price. But you would also have to do away with the investors on Wall street who invest in commodities and drive prices up with no regard to supply and demand.
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Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4339

  • Harrison Fire
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Spin the GW madness any way you want.
HF
www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0110/South-in...-warming-predictions

What's more, Piers Corbyn, a British forecaster who looks primarily at solar activity, sees the last two wintry years as the first phase of a mini-ice age that could be in full swing by 2035.

Whatever the meteorological cause and effect of the early snow and cold, risk expert Ropeik warns against reading too much into the response. "We do tend to overemphasize the dread of the moment," he says. "That's just human instinct."

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/1227/...ns-into-winter-wimps
Dell-Point Europa GF75
Keeping Warm With Wood Heat From 1976 To 2006
Heating With Corn And Wood Pellets Since 2006
Been Through the School of Hard Knocks
Still Have All My Fingers!
Last Edit: 2 years, 4 months ago by Harrison Fire.

Re: Gore Admits He Was Wrong About Ethanol Subsidies: 2 years, 4 months ago #4342

  • jdeere5220
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tractorjockey wrote:
If we took away all the subsidies from everyone maybe supply and demand would have a better chance of actually controlling price. But you would also have to do away with the investors on Wall street who invest in commodities and drive prices up with no regard to supply and demand.


Your right on the first part for certain. As to the second, well my take is that investors are investing to make money in a free market. They buy commodities when they think the price will go up, and generally this IS based on supply and demand, or more accurately the projected supply and demand. They aren't paying more for corn futures because they just feel like it, they are paying more because there is lots of demand a little supply and they believe for that reason prices will continue to climb. I do the same thing with my 401K allocations.

Corn prices might come back some in the short term, but as long as we are forced to burn corn in our cars and the global population continues to grow, the expectation is that supplies will remain tight and the days of $3.00 / bu corn are probably over.
Maxim M250
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I support Global Warming
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