Binford wrote:


things that seem to work but get nowhere fast.

www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=l...&sa=N&tab=wi



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine





buildaroo.com/news/article/solar-energy-...ogy-stirling-engine/

www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2011/jun/HQ_11-191_Solar_Projects.html

This weekend was the energy fair. The HHO cell wet was there with about 50 people interested. The dry cell looks good. Most of us that are doing work on this stuff have day jobs and just our pocket money to fund it. We haven't mastered the wet cell. It will take time to get to the dry cell. All the testing I do is done with the lab equipment I have at home. We need people to build this stuff and use it in the real world. Thanks for all the nice links.

24 Hour Solar Energy Plant

news.discovery.com/tech/new-solar-plant-...at-night-110624.html

Hybrid Solar System Makes Rooftop Hydrogen


ScienceDaily (Aug. 10, 2011) — While roofs across the world sport photovoltaic solar panels to convert sunlight into electricity, a Duke University engineer believes a novel hybrid system can wring even more useful energy out of the sun's rays.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110809132232.htm

Solyndra to Declare Bankruptcy

Despite $535 MILLION in federal loan guarantees and Obama himself proclaiming them to be the savior of American jobs, they are going under. The lesson just keeps repeating itself: The federal government can not and should not be trying to pick the winners in a free market economy. Let the free market do that.



Good luck getting that statement.

jdeere5220 wrote:


Tell that to the Chinese

Has anyone else noticed every thing he touches goes broke even after the gov pumps in all kinds of money.
Why is it so difficult to see that just because Obama or Al Gore says something is a great idea that doesn't make it a markable product. This country is past broke and yet they don't get it.
We have to produce something that other countries need and are willing to pay for it. Simply put there is no balance of trade and until that happens we are in a heap of trouble.

rona wrote:


Well, you could take another perspective. How about all the VC's who are losing money on Solyndra, Evergreen, and countless other ventures? They thought it was a good idea. Government also, surprise, can make mistakes. Some are only evident in hindsight.

There was a pretty strong business case for Solyndra, and their technology is in fact quite good, their equipment is excellent, and they are making and selling product. Until today,anyway.

The massive price erosion in solar panels, partly due to the Chinese effect, partly due to (expected) decreases in subsidies, is putting the hurt on everyone. Not all will survive. No one imagined that PV would be selling for a little over $1/watt, as it is now. There are not many companies that are going to survive that, regardless of where they get their funding.

Should we just give up the solar and other manufacturing industries to the Chinese? I don't think so. Do you? I don't mind if some bets placed by the government come out wrong, that's going to happen.

Rootwitch wrote:


PTI
Exactly, venture capitalist lost 1 billion in Solyndra. Private investors and corporate managers can bring down a multi-trillion dollar fincancial industry and no one here said we need to end capitalism, but government makes a bad multi-million dollar investment and this proves we need to elliminate government from the economy. Talk about confirmation bias - jeez.

In any case the government is not investing in Solyndra per se, it is investing in the clean and sustainable energy industry, of which solar is a key sector and Solyndra was one fraction of that sector. You have to judge the investment approach based on future returns of the whole portfolio.

If investments never lost money they wouldn't be investments. By definition an investment is the expenditure of money today in the expectation of greater future returns. Future being the operative term. Since the future can not be known all investments incur risk, which means sometimes you lose. If you don't take risks you don't invest and you don't grow the economy.

Talk to me in 15 years and then lets look at the returns from the solar industry versus the investments and then with the benefit of hindsight we can judge whether it was a good investment or not. Considering the energy sector is a multi-trillion dollar industry, 500 million was a drop in the barrel.

PTII
How quickly we forget. This was not just about investment in the future, it was about stimulating the economy in the short term - or saving jobs. The problem back in 2009, when they made this loan, was that banks were not loaning money to just about anyone. And the biggest threat to the growth in solar at that time was this capital freeze. So the government stepped in to keep the industry afloat until capital markets could return to normal. Given that this had to be done very quickly they were more likely to make mistakes than if they were not under the gun of a collapsing economy.