Hi guys,

Not much activity lately. I settled into somewhat of a routine with the boiler. Finally!!! Thanks for all your help. Much less stress now that I know how much time I have to respond to issues, and not overreact to decreasing water temps.

What I've learned this year:

Don't burn straight pellets - they don't flow well, and will cause auger jams.
Don't stir the burnpot.
Keep the water level as high as you can get it.

I haven't done any data logging for outdoor temp. vs. timer settings. Next Year!

I have hernia surgery (not from moving corn) tomorrow, so I'll make sure my 14bu bin is full.

I installed a replacement propane boiler last weekend, and that's working as it should. So, my wife won't need to worry about my "science project".

I have about 25bu of corn and 10 bags of pellets so that may be the end of the burning season for me since I move corn from my hoppers via 32gal trash cans. Otherwise, after some recovery time, I'll need to start moving corn w/5 gal. buckets.

Tim

Hi Guys,

Mostly idling along in Wis. Mostly 40's this week. Lost alot/most of the snow on the flats. Can't really judge my system performance until we get cold again.

My low fire timers are 20on 12off. Still consumes plenty of corn. It's really visual for me since I'm filling the 14bushel bin manually. Plent of excess charred corn, that haven't turned to clinkers. I'm not using for DHW, so I'll just leave the times at the typical settings and wait for winter to come back.

Thanks to all that helped me get to this point.

Tim

Guys, I can't say for sure, but some of the motors have Helical Cut gears on the motor shaft. Probably intended to favor (1) direction of rotation, but not limited to that direction. To dispute myself, a tractor transmission & differential would be an example of helical gears that provide power in both directions. Just a thought!

Farmer1,

I'm back to running (1) fan. Sunday morning I did a complete clean-out of the burnpot, bin, replaced auger flighting, etc. Green Roof had many specific operating details that worked for him, so I'm using those principles to get to "square one". We have mild weather this week so I can learn now, what I should have been learning in October. WIth this weather, there is plenty of time on lowfire. This morning, I had a big glowing "crustation". I probed around the pot to break it free from the walls and let the lower holes provide some air and then, off to work!! I'll see how it looks this afternoon.

I know you get by burning anything, (ie cracked corn). I need to stick to the basics until I can figure out what normal is. I made a simple screen (1/4" mesh) for cleaning before it goes in the bin. I cleaned about 70 gals of corn last night, and collected about 1 gal of fines. The Cardinals will love it!! Doesn't seem like too much, but at least I can say it's clean. Running 15% pellets. Based on my erratic operation, I had lots of unburned pellet fines, ash, etc. in the burnpot. I know you said you haven't seen your burn auger in 1.5 years. I'll only be burning for the heating season.

I tried to make an emperical moisture test while my wife was using a hot-air popper to pop corn (store bought) for my little boys. I did get some of my corn to pop within (1) min. but the kernels don't like to stay in the popper. Oh-well!!

Thanks for all the help in the past weeks!

Tim

replying to my own???

Fitter. About the auger. I bought (4) of those short augers from SC. They were $5 each. they're heavy. I think they're only about 12 long.

Green Roof posted RFS? reflighting services in Nebraska? I've got a section of something I found at an auction. Somebody mentioned a salvage yard. I have a file with some other "screw conveyor" and "earth auger" companies. I saw that vertical hay bale elevators use augers, but I think they are too big.

A good annual consignment auction (March) in Lebanon. at the feed mill. I think Stan Jones does it. Check his site.

Hi guys.

I'm using a primary/secondary loop piping concept. Made sense at the time. Seems to be working ok, but the books I was reading (Dan Holohan) was mostly about pressuized boilers.

I don't know if my TACO 007 F5 circulators are the proper units. I don't want to change them, but wondering what model circulator you guys are using. My boiler was used and didn't have a circulator.

I was getting low temps, but a decent "boiler only" recovery rate, so I didn't know if I was circulating water at the proper rate. It's a long story, I hope I'm past it, focusing on fuel/fire/temp.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

Hello Fitter.

I like you circulator manifold. I hope to see it in person sometime.

Haven't forgot about you, but I haven't been to Mayville/Hartford yet.

I bought the 230 from SC. It is a CW rotation to. The grainger is CCW. To install the SC blower with the air inlet up (so you can install the air shutter), the blower housing will hit the burn auger. Also, the motor is external. (probably better for this app.) I've thought to install one in the orig. location, with the inlet down, you would need to "hinge" a shutter, and counter balance with a light spring, and have the solenoid pull down. It would be a little science project in itself to recreate that shutter function using the existing solenoid.


I cut a hole in the side of my airbox and installed a 2nd grainger 2C067. I was so far out in left field and nervous about the cold weather last week, I wanted more air, to help with a poor? fuel situation. I may still be in left field but with all the information I learned last week, I started fresh on Sunday. cleaned out the bin and burn pot. Installed new flighting on the burn auger and got the boiler to setpoint at about 10pm last night. Time will tell.

If I had to do over again. I might try another Grainger fan, mount it above the existing, and use the solenoid power to run fan number 2. I might use a "static" manual shutter setting on fan 1. I hope to get stabilized this week, and I will see what affect the 2nd fan has.
I didn't mount above the existing because my auger purge tube was in the way, not very flexible, and I didn't want to retap those 3/4 fittings.

With all that said:

I do have a 230 CFM blower from SC available if someone wants it.
I will keep my spare 2C067 grainger fan.
I do have a spare solenoid - new from grainger (when I bought the fan).

Tim

You've done your homework! I like tracking those types of variables also, but I'm not there yet. I look forward to that type of information.
If it's in the 30's this weekend, I'll have some time for a cushion, and maybe I can stabilize. I'm always reacting!!! Maybe not reacting the way I like, but making a compromise due to work, plowing snow, etc. October/November would have been a much better time to start-up vs. Jan. Feb. (I fixed the propane boiler piping leaks in the fall, which held enough pressure to force a cast iron heat exchanger leak around Christmas) It never got any better, so my FIREDRILL started!!!

GRA, I here what you're saying about air Volume. I see the signs of the augers being pressurized, some smoke-back, "fines" being blown out at fittings etc. It was/is a desperate attempt. It might be a "4 barrel carb on a lawnmower". I anxious to have some over temp problems!!!

Custom electronic controls? I've got other problems, but sounds interesting for the future. I've briefly looked into a PID control, but i expect the fuel rate of our systems is too slow/inconsistent for success.

I did alot of searching but never found RFS. Looks like a good source. We have Lowe Mfg. (Bobcat trencher/PHD attachments) up the road. Seems like they have a small auger division, but I haven't called them. Another Industry to check is the "earth Auger" companies. They use them for sampling soil, ice etc. Drilling holes for ski racing gates, etc.

I don't know what "normal" is yet, but I added another Grainger 2C067 to the side of my housing to try to get more heat out of the corn. Apparently it's pressurizing the auger tubes because "fines" are starting to accumulate near the auger bearing housing and gear motor. One thing to keep in mind is: The grainger blower is CCW rotation. The blowers from SC are CW. So to install them, the inlet will be facing down or else the blower housing will hit the burn auger. Of course, with the inlet down, the air shutter will need to be reconfigured, or modify the "timer/power" scheme. Or move the blower to the side. (that's what I did, since my boiler is in a shelter, and I've never installed the side panel.

I have a SS auger and tube from a SPice factory, but I need to head over to the local scrapper and get some augers out of those old combines,etc.

Tim

My Propane boiler is 66K BTU/Hr. I did the heat loss calcs. before we put on the addition in '05. We have about 1200ft² and 800ft² heated with infloor heat. (mixing valve to provide 110° water to the floor) Even with propane, there was a time or two that we ran out of fuel. Getting the house up to temp. was several hrs. that Burnham boiler is considered to be a low mass boiler, only holding a few gallons of water. (it's smaller than a dishwasher). So with my pumps circulating, and zones calling for heat, I would expect that I'm calling for a good portion of the corn boiler's capacity. Whether it's 50K, 100K, or 150K doesn't mean too much if I have poor quality fuel. Lots of variables!!!

I don't have any underground piping. There is less than 10' supply and 10' return between my boiler and my manifold in my insulated garage. The pipes are insulated from the boiler to the basement.

My desired temp. at the heat exchanger/propane is 160°. I don't feel like I'm dealing with a "HEAT LOSS" problem, it's more of a "HEAT INPUT" problem (i.e. fuel quality, combustion air, heat transfer) at the boiler/burn pot.

I'll be adding a 2nd blower tonight.

Thanks,

Tim

FINALLY!!!!!!

The saga, Saw some hope Friday, but came home to about 140° water. And then the temps dropped some more, never regained!!!! What is going on!!! Saturday Morning the bin had a "cone" augered into it where I could see the outlet of the bin. Remember I'm using one of those Standard 14bu plastic bins. So, I threw in a couple scoops of "wood pellets". Came back a while later, and the water was on track to the set point!!!!! Added some more pellets, came back later, and it was hitting set point, and I believe "low fire". I went to town and bought (1) ton of pellets. Blended pellets 50/50 with corn, and it's been a peaceful weekend!!
Outdoor temps have been moderate, but at least I have hot water. It is so hard to auger pellets!!! I started w/pellets for eas of burn, but I was fighting jams/gear motors etc. Pellets made heat when I could get them in the burn pot!!! I was anxious to get to corn since the system was set-up to auger corn. Well, corn wasn't making too much heat. My farmer friend came back from Cancun. I asked him about moisture and he said it should be 13%. He farms 1500 to 2000 acres. and just sold a few semi loads of corn. I don't doubt what he says. He did say he had to add a combustion blower to his Countryside shop furnace to burn corn. As I said, I ordered parts from Surplus Center and Grainger. Should be getting some today. My plan is to add another 2C067 blower, and omit the air shutter. For high fire, I will use the "Air shutter solenoid" wires to power the (2nd blower). I will probably need a "manual" restrictor over the "Primary" blower. Or, I will use (1) 230cfm blower (CW rotation) in place of the standard blower (I will need to move it around the side since a (CW) blower will not fit next to the burner auger.


Since I've been getting feedback from HobbyFarmer and Farmer 1, I was wondering if they were at significantly lower elevations that would aid their burning. I'm at about 1200, and google maps says they're about 900ish, so no signicant difference.

It's supposed to be cold for the next couple days. -xx° at night and highs at +x°. At least it will be above 0°.


Farmer 1, It makes me feel better that I haven't been the only one to "pull out my hair". Shouldn't need a different blower, but my results from this weekend were obvious. Pellets are cheaper, but corn augers nicely. I talked to Hobby Farmer about "numbers". I need to verify my Ranco control!!!! with a Thermocouple on my DMM. My belief is that my Ranco reads 10-15° low. 145 setpoint on the ranco = 157 on the Tekmar (propane boiler) control in the house. The Tekmar is pretty close to the other digital thermometer. The digital is limited at 158°. above that, it reads "HH" (high limit). So, When I talk numbers, I have a mix of "boiler", "Tekmar - Supply" and "Thermometer - Return", plus I use my hands on the pipes. I think I'm out of the woods. No free ride, but we have the thermostats set 4-6° higher than propane! I can buy pellets for $170, $180, $193, $209 or $220 / ton, and corn is about $207/Ton.

Have a good day, and thanks for all the help!!!

Tim

I can't say how much I'm circulating. I created a "pumping away" circuit with a Taco 007 pump. My system is 1" sch 40 fromt he boiler to the garage. About 10' of supply, and then it goes into 1 1/4 sch 40 for the manifold and then reduces to 1" sch 40 with (3) zone circulators. (1) for the heat exchanger/boiler int he house, (1 for a garage zone (base boards - if I decide to use it) and then another spare zone (if I wanted to add forced air/hydronic to the garage). Summary: Taco 007 supplying the zone manifold, and 007 circulating through the heat exchanger. The heat exchanger is about 30' from the circulator through 1" copper. I can't remember the heat exchanger rating. Yes, I have been using heat during warm-up, most times. I know that is a tremendous load (can take up to 6 hrs) but I want to keep water circulating, since I cannot usually tend to it (get back to work, or clear snow, or watch the kids) (

I placed an order with SC and grainger today. FYI, the inventory on 2c067 at grainger is down to about 50. Their recommended replacement is 37cfm less. Talking with the local motor shop, that configuration is a bit unique. (CCW) rotation. He had a FASCO (160 cfm) in stock but it is CW rotation. To install a CW rotation in our boilers would force the air inlet to the bottom, not allowing the air shutter to work. Or, if you put the inlet on top, the housing would probably interfere with the burn auger. I'm going to return the 160cfm to the electric shop. I did order one of those 230 cfm from SC. Did order a few of their gear motors (various RPM), and (4) of those augers. My reflighted burn auger is pretty worn down.

I THINK I FOUND THE LIGHT THIS MORNING!!!! I fell asleep early last night before tending to the boiler. Corn stopped flowing so the augers were dry, burn pot was burned down to almost empty (nothing glowing) and the "Y" melted again. (had the limit jumpered from the previous burndown) - grainger Anyway, got everything put back together, augered some corn in, threw some pellets on top and lit with a torch. Water temp was 55°. Went in to take a shower, by the time I was done, water temp. had climbed to 88°. I was impressed. Came home 3 hrs later and the temp had climbed to 110°. I haven't seen this type of recovery. You might think I easliy impressed, but I just haven't seen this type of recovery.

The difference: corn level was about/just above the bottom holes. During my frequent start-ups I had been overfilling to start, and then it never burns down. Blocks air flow, and reduces heat output. You know the story, but I've been impeding myself. I'll see what happens when I get home. (6 hrs since last check) I know you guys have talked about how low in the pot it should burn. I was getting irratic results by burning over the top, but I wanted to get more CFM to help the flame. No good reason I shouldn't be able to burn with results similar to yours. I'm hoping!!!! I was wondering if my blower had been replaced with the lower CFM replacement, but it is a 2c067.

Anyway, this thing has been kicking my butt. Making me feel like an idiot. The successes you guys have, lets me know there's a solution!!!

Have a good weekend!! Root for the Packers!!!

Tim

Thanks,

How'd I miss that one!!! I noticed the Kubota lift arms and the cargo net. The auger is between those?!?!?!?

Thanks,

When I look at SC, there are so many things I want to order, and get my money's worth on shipping, but I never pull the trigger?!?!?! So last week, I bought a 4 rpm gear motor from the local electric shop for $85. I turned him onto Surplus Center. I said, "I know you can't sell it for their price, you need to make money, so I paid the Grainger price since he's had it on the shelf since '08. He's a good guy and nice to deal with, so the price is not important. I gave him the number for surplus center and told him he should be able to find some common items that he can buy and re-sell and make a few bucks.

Tim

Thought I would get a chance to call, but got wrapped-up in clearing snow.

I'm still floundering. I had talked with Hobbyfarmer before I got your number. Tried some things last night. Saw improvement, and then the water temp dropped. Tried some different things this morning, cleared snow and had to go to work. I'm going to install a 160CFM blower tonight to make sure I don't have any shortage of air. If I can talk with some specific direction, I'll give a call tonight. It's supposed to be -10° tonight, so I need to put forth my best effort.

Thanks for the offer to call.

Tim

Hello Farmer 1.

Can I give you a call about burning, flue venting, and set points?

"I have this CORN AUGERING SYSTEM, with a by-product called heat. I'm not embracing it yet. Thanks,

Tim in Wisconsin.

Hello Hobby Farmer

Mine was worn to the point where I didn't think it was very effective so I have a 10' piece of auger that I got at a feed mill auction. Do you want me to send you a 12" piece? Send me a PM with your address and it will go out today. This is a very light gauge auger, but I replaced the burn pot flighting on mine. I cut the weld with a 4" angle grinder to remove the flighting from the new auger and cleaned the old auger shaft with the grinder and then tack welded the new flighting. I trimmed the flighting w/angle grinder. Seems to work OK. I didn't notice the augers in Surplus Center, I'll need to look again.

To answer your question. No repsponses from Universal Grain or Anderson Outdoor.

Tim

Good Morning Guys,

Yes, we're warm. Watched the Packer/Bears game while lying on the heated floor, and room temp was 73. "Livin' like a millionaire!". I did it to myself last Friday. The set screw on my new burner auger shaft collar (15/16" hex) was too short. Motor slipped out between 1pm and 4pm. Burned/melted the "Y" until the "safety" tripped. Ran to town, bought (2) "y's" installed (1) and started making hot water.

My wife and I, and our (2) little boys slept in the same bedroom downstairs. We were using a space heater. At about 2:00am had the room up to 70, and turned off the space heater. Boiler was still making plenty of hotwater. (I'm able to monitor water temp. through my propane boiler temp sensor) w/o going outside. Running well in the morning. It takes a lot of fuel to bring a house back up to temp!! On saturday I tried some different settings. At this stage, the boiler is very sensitive. Temp can drop like a rock with too much off-time. Made sure the water was to max level. I found my old "Springfield Instruments" weather station w/remote wireless transmitter. It monitors room temp, humidity, and time. It accepts (3) remote wireless channels. I have 1 channel. Max temp reading is 159°. I have the sensor on the return line from the house. At this stage, it's very convenient to watch the trends for return water temp. w/o going downstairs or outside. I can have the base unit by the bed, and check that the return temp is somewhere in the 140's w/setpoint at 150±4. This unit also has an alarm for high/low temp. I have the low alarm set for 130°. High alarm is the max (159) so it is marginally useful.

Summary, I'm on track! Last week was a comedy of error's but I wasn't laughing a whole lot!!! I'm going to get 20-50 bu from my buddy, (corn & beef) farmer. Also, we have a local pellet mill that's making maple right now, so I'm going to try some of those pellets.

Thanks again,

Tim